Friend, There are ministers/ preachers/ teachers - who say that the POWER of the holy spirit, and HEALINGS of the 1st Century Church are no longer in use.
If you don't know the thrill of talking to Jesus getting an answer and laying your hands-on the sick that they recover.You might want to consider taking this class somewhere in the conduct next month.It'll, it's life-changing.I guarantee it
Pancreatic cancer is deeply related to fears, anxieties and other serious spiritual errors. It is a very serious cancer that demands complete and total repentance from the afflicted. If you have anyone in your community that has the faith to do so, he needs to be spoken to, counseled to repent (as they prayerfully inquire about the sins), then annointed with oil and prayed for in person. I have seen this situation before.
Not trying to be contentious sister but I’m genuinely curious how every sickness can be due to a demon or a spirit in light of verses such as these:
“And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.”
John 9:1-3 KJV
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.”
1 Timothy 5:23 KJV
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.”
2 Timothy 4:20 KJV
There are no verses pertaining to *Christians* being sick that connects it to spirits or demons, if I’ve overlooked a verse please let me know. Neither do the verses in Acts 3 mention the lame man being demonized or it being due to a demon: it may or may not have been caused by a demon, but the text doesn’t state that. The pastoral epistles seem like precisely the time to mention this teaching to Timothy, particularly for his own illnesses, yet Paul doesn’t do so.
Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding your beliefs, but if it was simply a matter of prayer or faith to cast out every spirit of sickness, why would Paul leave his companions ill or recommend that Timothy take wine for his infirmities? Do Paul and Timothy not have enough faith?
But you have never heard me say that 'every sickness can be due to a demon'. I have not said that because it is not Biblical. When an ailment in the Bible was demonic, you would see the Lord 'rebuke it'. When it is a sickness, he would 'heal it'. The words used are distinctly telling.
Scipio wrote - "There are no verses pertaining to *Christians* being sick that connects it to spirits or demons"
In fact, the Gospel records are full of records of demons being rebuked by the Lord or the Apostles.., The examples you quoted do not necessarily point to a demon, but then as I said, not all problems are demonic. I never said so, because the Bible doesn't say so. Still, DO remember Christ's admonition to his Church in Mark 16 'You SHALL cast out demons'.
Christians are demon afflicted as much as any non believer. Thurmond Scrivner, a man with one of the greatest deliverance ministries of the 20th Century, was a Bishop in a Baptist Church. (Till he moved on). They had a discussion one day amongst the bishops and elders.. 'Can a Christian have a demon'. As you can imagine, the viewpoints varied, though to his credit, Scrivner asked the Lord ' Can a Christian have a demon?" Jesus answered - 'Son, the athletes foot you have had for 25 years is a demon'. At which point, Scrivner put his hands on his own feet and expelled the demon of Athletes foot that had been eating into his skin since Vietnam service days - and it was gone - totally healed.
I used that information to go home from Texas (Where I'd heard him relate that account) and put my hands on my born again husbands feet, that STANK to high heavens as a rule. When I kicked out the 'foul smelling demon' not only did his feet lose their smell, the air in the WHOLE ROOM went clean instantly. The smell has never returned.
In 2006 Jesus kicked a Scoliosis demon out of my back, that I'd suffered for about 8 years. Until he did, I could not raise my right foot off the ground. After he did, I'm as limber as a ballerina! What is remarkable, was that the Lord did it INSTANTLY.. no fanfare, no exorcism.. Demons can be removed that simply with faith.
The point is simply, it requires a knowledge of the Scriptures, and spiritual discernment, to correctly call a disease. Since I have been doing this almost 50 years, I usually never miss a beat. But if a Christian refuses to discern between that which is a stomach problem, a simple 'infirmity', as you quoted Timothy.. and a demonic affliction.. they will remain unhealed. A 'little wine' for example, will not remove a demon if it is there.
The lame man at the Temple Gate beautiful could EASILY have had a demon from birth, that caused his legs to go lame. Either the Word of God - or Jesus - have removed demons from me THREE different times, When I first got saved and delivered of MANY demons, there was NO exorcism! NO drama! I had studied the Bible intensely for 3 weeks, got born again and baptized in the holy spirit - and the demons left.. When Jesus met me that day to give me instructions for life, the demons were already gone.
THAT is very interesting. When we are healed, James said, IF there be any sin, it is forgiven. So at the moment I was healed by the word, the demons had to go with the sickness they caused! You can't be forgiven and still sick. The Scriptures are clear - forgiveness and healing go hand in hand.
You can't imagine HOW MANY saints are dying in their sins, for lack of this understanding! To go to a doctor to recover one from a sickness, even succeeding.. means the sin that caused the sickness may still very well be intact - (which of course is what leads to so much recidivism in cancer etc.) But the point being, that without a recognition that the sickness may have had its roots in sin - followed by a repentance for the sin, saints wind up dying with their sins intact. NOT a good thing. Note Jesus' words in John 8:21 carefully. To die in one's sins is not a good thing.
Since 1979, I have not gone to a doctor ONCE for healing. Not once. I go to the Lord and he has shown me the sin, if there were any, and healed me. If there was sin, it meant I repented.
When he delivered me from demons, (Scoliosis, Bulimia, Prader willi, Tine Versicola) in each case, he didn't mention the demons. As with Peter's mom, it was enough to say - Get up and Walk'.!
WATCH THIS Scipio!... Jesus told us - 'Get up and walk - is the same thing as saying 'YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN YOU'.. (Matthew 9:5) The thing is, when the SIN goes.. so goes the demon.
I think the saints have this Hollywood idea that every demon requires an 'exorcism'. Not at all. They bow at the name of Jesus, and in most cases may be rebuked by a believing saint - in that name.
Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding your beliefs, but if it was simply a matter of prayer or faith to cast out every spirit of sickness, why would Paul leave his companions ill or recommend that Timothy take wine for his infirmities? Do Paul and Timothy not have enough faith?
Jesus ALSO left many sick in Galilee, his home town, for their 'lack of faith'.
We also see where JESUS healed ONE paralyzed man by the Pool of Bethsaida. Yet there were MANY sick folks..
We see then that if a man does not believe, or does not WANT to be healed (I know MANY like that), then they get to stay sick. God cannot force a man to believe.
Why take wine? There are many natural remedies that God put on earth to assuage discomfort, pain, even sickness. My medicine cabinet contains herbal preparations, oils, and oxidative medicines. There is no conflict there.
I simply cannot understand anyone would choose to remain sick! I hate being sick. it robs your peace and brings discouragement. with your prayers and our conversations, I've overcome alot. this sleeping issue is that I'm dealing with is fustrating enough. I sureceoukdntvwant to remain sick or sleepless if I knew God had the answers!
Thank you for clarifying. You tied sicknesses to demons in this essay without making any distinctions, as well as stating that every black spot seen on an xray was a demon, so I apologize for that assumption. I agree the Bible does not state sickness is always caused by a demon. I know you have a lot of experience to draw upon but I’m curious where do you find these ideas in Scripture?
Yes, demons were cast out by Christ and the Apostles. I’ll be writing more in depth on that topic in a few weeks so I’d be interested in your thoughts then. I’m sure you’d agree that these were Jews and not Christians seen during the ministry of Christ though, which is why I made that distinction.
The lame man in Acts 3 may or may not have had a demon, it can not simply be assumed and stated emphatically that he did since the text does not state that. In light of John 9, why would we assume it was a demon when Scripture is silent on the matter in Acts 3? Are all cripples from birth demonized in your opinion?
As the only God-breathed standard we can appeal to, Scripture alone is sufficient to equip the man of God to do every good work, as Paul tells Timothy. I think we would both agree that the saints being able to heal themself (which is very different than what is described in James 5) is a good work. Why would Paul not write or expound on this idea for us to discern between a simple ailment or a demon, particularly in pastoral epistles dedicated to teaching sound doctrine and ministerial duties? This seems like one of the most important topics Paul could have addressed with Timothy, and yet he remains silent.
The issue of whether a Christian can be demonized or not is separate from whether the New Testament epistles describe our sicknesses as Christians being caused by demons. Only the taking of communion unworthily is cited as the cause of the Corinthians sicknesses. Why would Paul not mention here that demons could be doing it too, so the flock needs to discern which is which? (Which begs the question obviously, how can we discern between an ailment and a demon when Scripture has not spoken on this issue, and thus we have no metric to guide our path?)
You wrote: 'You tied sicknesses to demons in this essay without making any distinctions, as well as stating that every black spot seen on an xray was a demon,'
The 'demon' discussion came into the conversation with the 'black spots' on Miriams test. Not with the previously mentioned deliverances. Just to be clear.
YES: a black spot seen in your body on any scan or X ray IS a demon. They show up. And have to be handled as a demon to be removed. All men know how to do is 'cut'.
You wrote:
"Are all cripples from birth demonized in your opinion?"
I did not say 'all cripples from birth are demonized'. What I will say is that a baby or child with an affliction is suffering from a sin of their parents. I have yet to see a situation like this, where this was not the case.
The understanding of healing and casting out demons, was already fully explained by Jesus Christ. Paul did not need to 'recap'. People who wish to be well, or heal others, MUST have an intimate familiarity with the Gospel records, AND be walking by the spirit - operating the 'manifestation of the discerning of spirits'. Or everything becomes guesswork; which is why so many Christians are sick, and even die before their time.
I know personally 8 Christians (of which 4 were ministers) that died before their time in just the last few years, for failing to understand these truths and apply them.
There doesn’t seem to be much Scripture for us to go to that lays this doctrine out so I hope you don’t mind all the questions, I’m genuinely trying to understand your point of view.
Paul expounded upon and clarified all sorts of Christ’s teachings because people misused them and misunderstood them. He doesn’t have to restate it continually, but Paul clarified things like communion, giftings, etc., so there is certainly a precedent for major doctrinal and ministerial issues being clarified in his epistles. If sicknesses are from demons and casting out demons is something we’re all called to do, it’s exceedingly peculiar why Paul would not address this topic at all. Neither do the Church fathers address this issue, or really any Christian expositor before the 20th century.
Ezekiel 18 lays out how the LORD will not punish the children for the sins of their father: we are all judged for our actions and sins alone. We are also told by Christ to have a childlike faith. Why wouldn’t a child’s earnest prayers for healing be answered if it is due to their sin or a demon?
Hello Scipio, You pointed to Ezekiel 18, and say that the Lord does not punish the children for the sins of their fathers. But you overlooked the context. I would ask you to compare the context of Ezekiel 18, with the context of Deuteronomy 5, which has a completely different viewpoint.. (or does it?) VIZ:
'I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,'
SO then, we see that God reserves to Himself the right to punish the children of evil doers.. How to reconcile both precepts? EASY:
Deuteronomy goes on to say WHEN the Lord God will LIFT the threat of being punished by our fathers.. VIZ:
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Ezekiel 18 is an EXAMPLE of that distinction. Look at it: The chapter details a man who does everything wrong.. where normally his children would suffer the consequences of his crimes.. But God EXPLAINS that the child who TURNS from his fathers sins, loves and obeys GOD,.. is shown mercy. Exactly what Deuteronomy 5:9&10 said after all. There you have it.
I can't post a photo here, but I will display a photo on my Stack of a little girl who suffered horrific exzema for the sins of her parents.. and was delivered AFTER her mom came clean and repented.
I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.
I'll also write on sickness soon. It is possibly the most important subject in Scripture, because sickess IS GODs STOP SIGN - His way of showing someone that something needs to be fixed SPIRITUALLY, before they die.
“I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.“
If this woman did not commit those sins then she is not being punished for it. Ezekiel 18 establishes the principle that God does not punish the righteous for the sins of their father.
Why would a faithful child’s earnest prayer for healing of eczema not be answered if it’s simply a matter of “manifesting power”? Is the child not saved? If not, then isn’t “deliverance” ultimately pointless since the demons still have “legal rights” to the child and the sickness could just come back?
Likewise I would point out the context of Duetoronomy is Moses giving the Law:
“If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE Lord THY GOD; then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.”
Deuteronomy 28:58-61 KJV
All of the curses of the law were nailed to the Cross:
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
Galatians 3:10-13 KJV
If we are in Christ then we are redeemed from the curses of the Law, hallelujah.
Well, your questions.. all valid.. bring to mind just 2 of many examples of people who died for having the wrong theology. Do you know of Norvel Hayes? He had the one of the greatest deliverance ministries of all time; but his mom died at the tender age of 37. Years later deep into his ministry of healing and deliverance, he asked the Lord - "Why did my mother die (of cancer).?" (She was a Christian and in fact raised Norvell as a believing Christian). Jesus replied 'She was in the wrong church'.
I was sent to pray for Sharon in 2018.. We were new in this area, attending a lovely church with lovely friendly saints. ... who didn't believe in healing. They had a family of 'father & 5 children who made up the 'music ministry', We were almost a year in this church, but never saw the mom. Turns out she was home bedridden with cancer.. Till one Sunday, the boys & dad were not in church, and I learned they were at the hospital where their mom was in a coma. The Lord told me to go and pray for her.. but he only had me remit her sins. When I got to the hospital room, the lady was unconscious in bed, hooked up to monitors.. her husband by her side and sister too. I asked if I could pray for Sharon - Her husband smiled at said 'Yes'. So I did, as the Lord led. I remitted her sins, and comforted the family. I found out later that while my eyes were closed, the sister was watching the heart monitor, because she noticed as I prayed, it was regulating! After I left she woke up for the first time in weeks. She spent a lovely day saying goodbye to her family, all who assembled. Then she died, forgiven.
One might ask, Why didn't the Lord heal her?
IT WAS TOO LATE FOR HER. She and her family were in a church that did not believe the Scriptures.. So there was NOTHING Jesus could do. He cannot overstep our free will! This happens all the time.
One more example.. I had 2 ministers stay here for a week, in my B&B last year. Baptists. In the course of chatting I learned one of them had 2 sons; both were sick. One sick already 20 years! I tried to encourage his faith by telling them both one morning at breakfast, testimonies of deliverance that I had been involved in, right there in my B&B! People I prayed for, or who took that BIble class and left delivered of 15 years of debilitating Lyme Disease.. etc.. The father, in a snarly sort of way, remarked that I was the 'hero of my own stories'.
That was his reaction to my attempt to help him.
Then he said.. You have no idea what it's like to listen to his mother crying for 20 years.. He was right of course.. because crying does not move the Father God. Faith does. I never waste His time with my tears. (But I didn't say that).
The point is simply that Jesus taught us EVERYTHING WE NEED TO KNOW about healing. Paul and the rest of the disciples demonstrated the CHURCH doing what Jesus did.. so that the Church through the ages would have both the written DOCTRINE and written ensamples.
You may have noticed that AMAZINGLY the FINAL commandment that the Lord gave to his Church, has been glossed over completely. So the Lord's Church has been largely imasculated.. rendered powerless.
2020 was a dreadful demonstration of that powerlessness. When all the 501c3 churches closed up shop on command of men, theyobediently posted Psalm 91, which Jesus NEVER ONCE quoted to his Church. The Psalm which conveniently suggests the powerless people of Israel to 'hunker down',. has absolutely nothing to do with the EMPOWERED CHURCH; which has AUTHORITY over ALL the evil in this world. Scipio.. I prove it all the time.
One of these days I'll tell you the story of how a wealthy mason, in Virginia, sued me.. and had as the judge, his own 'high ranking mason lawyer!'. When my lawyer too one look at who the judge was, he took me to the building's lunchroom and said to my face.. .'YOURE GOING TO LOSE THIS F...ing CASE" (He said the word).
I didn't lose. Because I have the finest defense attorney in the world. Jesus Christ. I won. I'll tell you another time.
But the Church .. if it would only believe Jesus.. and stop excusing itself for not manifesting power.. would have saved this country from the destruction it's engulfed in.. and worse to come.
I understand you have had a lot of experiences, but that doesn’t address my scriptural questions. I hope we would both agree that no matter our personal experiences, Scripture should be the ultimate arbiter of what constitutes a genuine expression of the Christian faith passed down by Christ and His Apostles. If Scripture is not the sole and final authority on matters of the faith for you then it is going to be impossible for us to see eye to eye.
I know you believe that Christ clearly taught this doctrine, so which verses clearly lay out this doctrine in your opinion? Citing verses where demons are cast out won’t work since we agree that all sicknesses are not caused by demons, so we can not definitively state that a person’s illness was caused by one if it does not explicitly state that. Likewise, since Christ tells us in John 9 that not all sicknesses are due to personal sin, we can not just assume an illness was caused by sin if the text doesn’t explicitly state that.
If this was so clear, why did it take 1900 years for someone to understand it or teach it? If this is really what the Apostles taught, why did no Church fathers teach it? In fact, every Church father of note flatly rejects the notion that demons could inhabit or possess a believer who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Take the Trinity for instance. Despite the Trinity not being dogmatized until after Nicea I, there are affirmations of the Trinity in Christian writings from the 1st century, such as the Didache. It was very clearly an Apostolic tradition, which Scripture affirms for us.
The implications of this doctrine are very troubling to me, to be perfectly honest with you. Until we put off this mortal coil, we all sin every day: should I cast demons out of myself every day? (Which of course further begs the question if we can even exercise demons from ourselves since the Bible never states we can, other people are always shown casting them out.)
How can there be any peace in Christ if I must constantly be on the lookout for demons?
Cipio I guess you didn't read due to Ronald me. Chapter 5, and I am not going to keep trying to prove anything to you. If you do not want to know that's your privilege. I have answered all your questions. If you are not walking and talking terms with Jesus Christ, you can argue with me till the day is over and your problem is you're still debating from sense, knowledge and intellect. I'm, I've showed you the scriptures that back up what I'm saying.I can't keep up this debate.I will write a post later and hopefully it will explain what you don't understand.
BTW.. I made the statement 'ALL Black spots that show up in a body scan are demons'.. because the Lord Jesus Christ showed that to me.
In fact, the REASON I was able to visit MIRIAM knowing EXACTLY how to deliver her, was the confidence that came from the LORD SHOWING ME that a 'black spot', is a demon.
Too many Christians are 'guessing' at this type of critical information.. when it needs to be backed by Scripture, and / or revealed by the Lord.
If anyone is not Baptized in the power of the Holy Spirit, and is NOT on talking terms with Jesus Christ - they are left with 'guessing' and 'private interpretation of Scripture', which is why in so many cases, the Church has shown itself to be powerless and ineffective.
The holy spirit BAPTISM and a ROUTINE STUDY of Scripture is IMPERATIVE.
“ Too many Christians are 'guessing' at this type of critical information.. when it needs to be backed by Scripture, and / or revealed by the Lord.”
If we can’t find it in Scripture, how do we know it’s of God?
It’s fallacious and circular reasoning to cite our feelings or our experiential knowledge as evidence. That is why an objective, external standard of truth is the only standard we can all confidently turn to. I hope we would agree that the Holy Bible is the only standard that meets that criteria, not private revelations .
You asked: If we can’t find it in Scripture, how do we know it’s of God?
But IT IS in Scripture.
Anyone needs to learn how to let the Lord's Spirit of Truth', lead them in the 'All Truth'.. of the Bible to get their answers.
Without this, everything, as I said, is guesswork.
The answer to your question about 'children being punished by their parents sins', is found by comparing Ezekiel 18 and Deuteronomy chapter 5. I explained it above, though maybe you didn't see it. HERE....
Hello Scipio, You pointed to Ezekiel 18, and say that the Lord does not punish the children for the sins of their fathers. But you overlooked the context. I would ask you to compare the context of Ezekiel 18, with the context of Deuteronomy 5, which has a completely different viewpoint.. (or does it?) VIZ:
'I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,'
SO then, we see that God reserves to Himself the right to punish the children of evil doers.. How to reconcile both precepts? EASY:
Deuteronomy goes on to say WHEN the Lord God will LIFT the threat of being punished by our fathers.. VIZ:
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Ezekiel 18 is an EXAMPLE of that distinction. Look at it: The chapter details a man who does everything wrong.. where normally his children would suffer the consequences of his crimes.. But God EXPLAINS that the child who TURNS from his fathers sins, loves and obeys GOD,.. is shown mercy. Exactly what Deuteronomy 5:9&10 said after all. There you have it.
I can't post a photo here, but I will display a photo on my Stack of a little girl who suffered horrific exzema for the sins of her parents.. and was delivered AFTER her mom came clean and repented.
I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.
I'll also write on sickness soon. It is possibly the most important subject in Scripture, because sickess IS GODs STOP SIGN - His way of showing someone that something needs to be fixed SPIRITUALLY, before they die.
God bless you, Victoria
PS.. I never practice, nor preach anything that I cannot find in Scripture.
James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
And yes I am going to send in my testimony of complete healing 😊
!!!! That others too may HEAR and BELIEVE!
Absolutely incredible!! This lady is going to walk again! Praise be to Jesus!!! 🎉
Your amazing Victoria! 💗
I love you Emma!! You constantly bless me.
She is indeed
I'll have to answer your questions in a post so that others can benefit
Scipio I have a question for you too...
Are you born again... baptized in the spirit?... Do you speak in tongues
If you don't know the thrill of talking to Jesus getting an answer and laying your hands-on the sick that they recover.You might want to consider taking this class somewhere in the conduct next month.It'll, it's life-changing.I guarantee it
Please pray for a young father in my Christian school community in Western Australia who is close to death with pancreatic cancer.
Pancreatic cancer is deeply related to fears, anxieties and other serious spiritual errors. It is a very serious cancer that demands complete and total repentance from the afflicted. If you have anyone in your community that has the faith to do so, he needs to be spoken to, counseled to repent (as they prayerfully inquire about the sins), then annointed with oil and prayed for in person. I have seen this situation before.
Father God, RAISE UP this father! Get that cancer OUT of his pancreas, IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF JESUS! Amen!
.. And you tell him that he has people praying for him from all over the world 🙌
Not trying to be contentious sister but I’m genuinely curious how every sickness can be due to a demon or a spirit in light of verses such as these:
“And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.”
John 9:1-3 KJV
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.”
1 Timothy 5:23 KJV
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.”
2 Timothy 4:20 KJV
There are no verses pertaining to *Christians* being sick that connects it to spirits or demons, if I’ve overlooked a verse please let me know. Neither do the verses in Acts 3 mention the lame man being demonized or it being due to a demon: it may or may not have been caused by a demon, but the text doesn’t state that. The pastoral epistles seem like precisely the time to mention this teaching to Timothy, particularly for his own illnesses, yet Paul doesn’t do so.
Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding your beliefs, but if it was simply a matter of prayer or faith to cast out every spirit of sickness, why would Paul leave his companions ill or recommend that Timothy take wine for his infirmities? Do Paul and Timothy not have enough faith?
Hello dear Scipio,
But you have never heard me say that 'every sickness can be due to a demon'. I have not said that because it is not Biblical. When an ailment in the Bible was demonic, you would see the Lord 'rebuke it'. When it is a sickness, he would 'heal it'. The words used are distinctly telling.
Scipio wrote - "There are no verses pertaining to *Christians* being sick that connects it to spirits or demons"
In fact, the Gospel records are full of records of demons being rebuked by the Lord or the Apostles.., The examples you quoted do not necessarily point to a demon, but then as I said, not all problems are demonic. I never said so, because the Bible doesn't say so. Still, DO remember Christ's admonition to his Church in Mark 16 'You SHALL cast out demons'.
Christians are demon afflicted as much as any non believer. Thurmond Scrivner, a man with one of the greatest deliverance ministries of the 20th Century, was a Bishop in a Baptist Church. (Till he moved on). They had a discussion one day amongst the bishops and elders.. 'Can a Christian have a demon'. As you can imagine, the viewpoints varied, though to his credit, Scrivner asked the Lord ' Can a Christian have a demon?" Jesus answered - 'Son, the athletes foot you have had for 25 years is a demon'. At which point, Scrivner put his hands on his own feet and expelled the demon of Athletes foot that had been eating into his skin since Vietnam service days - and it was gone - totally healed.
I used that information to go home from Texas (Where I'd heard him relate that account) and put my hands on my born again husbands feet, that STANK to high heavens as a rule. When I kicked out the 'foul smelling demon' not only did his feet lose their smell, the air in the WHOLE ROOM went clean instantly. The smell has never returned.
In 2006 Jesus kicked a Scoliosis demon out of my back, that I'd suffered for about 8 years. Until he did, I could not raise my right foot off the ground. After he did, I'm as limber as a ballerina! What is remarkable, was that the Lord did it INSTANTLY.. no fanfare, no exorcism.. Demons can be removed that simply with faith.
The point is simply, it requires a knowledge of the Scriptures, and spiritual discernment, to correctly call a disease. Since I have been doing this almost 50 years, I usually never miss a beat. But if a Christian refuses to discern between that which is a stomach problem, a simple 'infirmity', as you quoted Timothy.. and a demonic affliction.. they will remain unhealed. A 'little wine' for example, will not remove a demon if it is there.
The lame man at the Temple Gate beautiful could EASILY have had a demon from birth, that caused his legs to go lame. Either the Word of God - or Jesus - have removed demons from me THREE different times, When I first got saved and delivered of MANY demons, there was NO exorcism! NO drama! I had studied the Bible intensely for 3 weeks, got born again and baptized in the holy spirit - and the demons left.. When Jesus met me that day to give me instructions for life, the demons were already gone.
THAT is very interesting. When we are healed, James said, IF there be any sin, it is forgiven. So at the moment I was healed by the word, the demons had to go with the sickness they caused! You can't be forgiven and still sick. The Scriptures are clear - forgiveness and healing go hand in hand.
You can't imagine HOW MANY saints are dying in their sins, for lack of this understanding! To go to a doctor to recover one from a sickness, even succeeding.. means the sin that caused the sickness may still very well be intact - (which of course is what leads to so much recidivism in cancer etc.) But the point being, that without a recognition that the sickness may have had its roots in sin - followed by a repentance for the sin, saints wind up dying with their sins intact. NOT a good thing. Note Jesus' words in John 8:21 carefully. To die in one's sins is not a good thing.
Since 1979, I have not gone to a doctor ONCE for healing. Not once. I go to the Lord and he has shown me the sin, if there were any, and healed me. If there was sin, it meant I repented.
When he delivered me from demons, (Scoliosis, Bulimia, Prader willi, Tine Versicola) in each case, he didn't mention the demons. As with Peter's mom, it was enough to say - Get up and Walk'.!
WATCH THIS Scipio!... Jesus told us - 'Get up and walk - is the same thing as saying 'YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN YOU'.. (Matthew 9:5) The thing is, when the SIN goes.. so goes the demon.
I think the saints have this Hollywood idea that every demon requires an 'exorcism'. Not at all. They bow at the name of Jesus, and in most cases may be rebuked by a believing saint - in that name.
Godspeed, Victoria
Scipio wrote:
Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding your beliefs, but if it was simply a matter of prayer or faith to cast out every spirit of sickness, why would Paul leave his companions ill or recommend that Timothy take wine for his infirmities? Do Paul and Timothy not have enough faith?
Jesus ALSO left many sick in Galilee, his home town, for their 'lack of faith'.
We also see where JESUS healed ONE paralyzed man by the Pool of Bethsaida. Yet there were MANY sick folks..
We see then that if a man does not believe, or does not WANT to be healed (I know MANY like that), then they get to stay sick. God cannot force a man to believe.
Why take wine? There are many natural remedies that God put on earth to assuage discomfort, pain, even sickness. My medicine cabinet contains herbal preparations, oils, and oxidative medicines. There is no conflict there.
I simply cannot understand anyone would choose to remain sick! I hate being sick. it robs your peace and brings discouragement. with your prayers and our conversations, I've overcome alot. this sleeping issue is that I'm dealing with is fustrating enough. I sureceoukdntvwant to remain sick or sleepless if I knew God had the answers!
Thank you for clarifying. You tied sicknesses to demons in this essay without making any distinctions, as well as stating that every black spot seen on an xray was a demon, so I apologize for that assumption. I agree the Bible does not state sickness is always caused by a demon. I know you have a lot of experience to draw upon but I’m curious where do you find these ideas in Scripture?
Yes, demons were cast out by Christ and the Apostles. I’ll be writing more in depth on that topic in a few weeks so I’d be interested in your thoughts then. I’m sure you’d agree that these were Jews and not Christians seen during the ministry of Christ though, which is why I made that distinction.
The lame man in Acts 3 may or may not have had a demon, it can not simply be assumed and stated emphatically that he did since the text does not state that. In light of John 9, why would we assume it was a demon when Scripture is silent on the matter in Acts 3? Are all cripples from birth demonized in your opinion?
As the only God-breathed standard we can appeal to, Scripture alone is sufficient to equip the man of God to do every good work, as Paul tells Timothy. I think we would both agree that the saints being able to heal themself (which is very different than what is described in James 5) is a good work. Why would Paul not write or expound on this idea for us to discern between a simple ailment or a demon, particularly in pastoral epistles dedicated to teaching sound doctrine and ministerial duties? This seems like one of the most important topics Paul could have addressed with Timothy, and yet he remains silent.
The issue of whether a Christian can be demonized or not is separate from whether the New Testament epistles describe our sicknesses as Christians being caused by demons. Only the taking of communion unworthily is cited as the cause of the Corinthians sicknesses. Why would Paul not mention here that demons could be doing it too, so the flock needs to discern which is which? (Which begs the question obviously, how can we discern between an ailment and a demon when Scripture has not spoken on this issue, and thus we have no metric to guide our path?)
You wrote: 'You tied sicknesses to demons in this essay without making any distinctions, as well as stating that every black spot seen on an xray was a demon,'
The 'demon' discussion came into the conversation with the 'black spots' on Miriams test. Not with the previously mentioned deliverances. Just to be clear.
YES: a black spot seen in your body on any scan or X ray IS a demon. They show up. And have to be handled as a demon to be removed. All men know how to do is 'cut'.
You wrote:
"Are all cripples from birth demonized in your opinion?"
I did not say 'all cripples from birth are demonized'. What I will say is that a baby or child with an affliction is suffering from a sin of their parents. I have yet to see a situation like this, where this was not the case.
The understanding of healing and casting out demons, was already fully explained by Jesus Christ. Paul did not need to 'recap'. People who wish to be well, or heal others, MUST have an intimate familiarity with the Gospel records, AND be walking by the spirit - operating the 'manifestation of the discerning of spirits'. Or everything becomes guesswork; which is why so many Christians are sick, and even die before their time.
I know personally 8 Christians (of which 4 were ministers) that died before their time in just the last few years, for failing to understand these truths and apply them.
There doesn’t seem to be much Scripture for us to go to that lays this doctrine out so I hope you don’t mind all the questions, I’m genuinely trying to understand your point of view.
Paul expounded upon and clarified all sorts of Christ’s teachings because people misused them and misunderstood them. He doesn’t have to restate it continually, but Paul clarified things like communion, giftings, etc., so there is certainly a precedent for major doctrinal and ministerial issues being clarified in his epistles. If sicknesses are from demons and casting out demons is something we’re all called to do, it’s exceedingly peculiar why Paul would not address this topic at all. Neither do the Church fathers address this issue, or really any Christian expositor before the 20th century.
Ezekiel 18 lays out how the LORD will not punish the children for the sins of their father: we are all judged for our actions and sins alone. We are also told by Christ to have a childlike faith. Why wouldn’t a child’s earnest prayers for healing be answered if it is due to their sin or a demon?
Hello Scipio, You pointed to Ezekiel 18, and say that the Lord does not punish the children for the sins of their fathers. But you overlooked the context. I would ask you to compare the context of Ezekiel 18, with the context of Deuteronomy 5, which has a completely different viewpoint.. (or does it?) VIZ:
'I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,'
SO then, we see that God reserves to Himself the right to punish the children of evil doers.. How to reconcile both precepts? EASY:
Deuteronomy goes on to say WHEN the Lord God will LIFT the threat of being punished by our fathers.. VIZ:
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Ezekiel 18 is an EXAMPLE of that distinction. Look at it: The chapter details a man who does everything wrong.. where normally his children would suffer the consequences of his crimes.. But God EXPLAINS that the child who TURNS from his fathers sins, loves and obeys GOD,.. is shown mercy. Exactly what Deuteronomy 5:9&10 said after all. There you have it.
I can't post a photo here, but I will display a photo on my Stack of a little girl who suffered horrific exzema for the sins of her parents.. and was delivered AFTER her mom came clean and repented.
I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.
I'll also write on sickness soon. It is possibly the most important subject in Scripture, because sickess IS GODs STOP SIGN - His way of showing someone that something needs to be fixed SPIRITUALLY, before they die.
God bless you, Victoria
“I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.“
If this woman did not commit those sins then she is not being punished for it. Ezekiel 18 establishes the principle that God does not punish the righteous for the sins of their father.
Why would a faithful child’s earnest prayer for healing of eczema not be answered if it’s simply a matter of “manifesting power”? Is the child not saved? If not, then isn’t “deliverance” ultimately pointless since the demons still have “legal rights” to the child and the sickness could just come back?
Likewise I would point out the context of Duetoronomy is Moses giving the Law:
“If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE Lord THY GOD; then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.”
Deuteronomy 28:58-61 KJV
All of the curses of the law were nailed to the Cross:
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
Galatians 3:10-13 KJV
If we are in Christ then we are redeemed from the curses of the Law, hallelujah.
Well, your questions.. all valid.. bring to mind just 2 of many examples of people who died for having the wrong theology. Do you know of Norvel Hayes? He had the one of the greatest deliverance ministries of all time; but his mom died at the tender age of 37. Years later deep into his ministry of healing and deliverance, he asked the Lord - "Why did my mother die (of cancer).?" (She was a Christian and in fact raised Norvell as a believing Christian). Jesus replied 'She was in the wrong church'.
I was sent to pray for Sharon in 2018.. We were new in this area, attending a lovely church with lovely friendly saints. ... who didn't believe in healing. They had a family of 'father & 5 children who made up the 'music ministry', We were almost a year in this church, but never saw the mom. Turns out she was home bedridden with cancer.. Till one Sunday, the boys & dad were not in church, and I learned they were at the hospital where their mom was in a coma. The Lord told me to go and pray for her.. but he only had me remit her sins. When I got to the hospital room, the lady was unconscious in bed, hooked up to monitors.. her husband by her side and sister too. I asked if I could pray for Sharon - Her husband smiled at said 'Yes'. So I did, as the Lord led. I remitted her sins, and comforted the family. I found out later that while my eyes were closed, the sister was watching the heart monitor, because she noticed as I prayed, it was regulating! After I left she woke up for the first time in weeks. She spent a lovely day saying goodbye to her family, all who assembled. Then she died, forgiven.
One might ask, Why didn't the Lord heal her?
IT WAS TOO LATE FOR HER. She and her family were in a church that did not believe the Scriptures.. So there was NOTHING Jesus could do. He cannot overstep our free will! This happens all the time.
One more example.. I had 2 ministers stay here for a week, in my B&B last year. Baptists. In the course of chatting I learned one of them had 2 sons; both were sick. One sick already 20 years! I tried to encourage his faith by telling them both one morning at breakfast, testimonies of deliverance that I had been involved in, right there in my B&B! People I prayed for, or who took that BIble class and left delivered of 15 years of debilitating Lyme Disease.. etc.. The father, in a snarly sort of way, remarked that I was the 'hero of my own stories'.
That was his reaction to my attempt to help him.
Then he said.. You have no idea what it's like to listen to his mother crying for 20 years.. He was right of course.. because crying does not move the Father God. Faith does. I never waste His time with my tears. (But I didn't say that).
The point is simply that Jesus taught us EVERYTHING WE NEED TO KNOW about healing. Paul and the rest of the disciples demonstrated the CHURCH doing what Jesus did.. so that the Church through the ages would have both the written DOCTRINE and written ensamples.
You may have noticed that AMAZINGLY the FINAL commandment that the Lord gave to his Church, has been glossed over completely. So the Lord's Church has been largely imasculated.. rendered powerless.
2020 was a dreadful demonstration of that powerlessness. When all the 501c3 churches closed up shop on command of men, theyobediently posted Psalm 91, which Jesus NEVER ONCE quoted to his Church. The Psalm which conveniently suggests the powerless people of Israel to 'hunker down',. has absolutely nothing to do with the EMPOWERED CHURCH; which has AUTHORITY over ALL the evil in this world. Scipio.. I prove it all the time.
One of these days I'll tell you the story of how a wealthy mason, in Virginia, sued me.. and had as the judge, his own 'high ranking mason lawyer!'. When my lawyer too one look at who the judge was, he took me to the building's lunchroom and said to my face.. .'YOURE GOING TO LOSE THIS F...ing CASE" (He said the word).
I didn't lose. Because I have the finest defense attorney in the world. Jesus Christ. I won. I'll tell you another time.
But the Church .. if it would only believe Jesus.. and stop excusing itself for not manifesting power.. would have saved this country from the destruction it's engulfed in.. and worse to come.
I understand you have had a lot of experiences, but that doesn’t address my scriptural questions. I hope we would both agree that no matter our personal experiences, Scripture should be the ultimate arbiter of what constitutes a genuine expression of the Christian faith passed down by Christ and His Apostles. If Scripture is not the sole and final authority on matters of the faith for you then it is going to be impossible for us to see eye to eye.
I know you believe that Christ clearly taught this doctrine, so which verses clearly lay out this doctrine in your opinion? Citing verses where demons are cast out won’t work since we agree that all sicknesses are not caused by demons, so we can not definitively state that a person’s illness was caused by one if it does not explicitly state that. Likewise, since Christ tells us in John 9 that not all sicknesses are due to personal sin, we can not just assume an illness was caused by sin if the text doesn’t explicitly state that.
If this was so clear, why did it take 1900 years for someone to understand it or teach it? If this is really what the Apostles taught, why did no Church fathers teach it? In fact, every Church father of note flatly rejects the notion that demons could inhabit or possess a believer who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Take the Trinity for instance. Despite the Trinity not being dogmatized until after Nicea I, there are affirmations of the Trinity in Christian writings from the 1st century, such as the Didache. It was very clearly an Apostolic tradition, which Scripture affirms for us.
The implications of this doctrine are very troubling to me, to be perfectly honest with you. Until we put off this mortal coil, we all sin every day: should I cast demons out of myself every day? (Which of course further begs the question if we can even exercise demons from ourselves since the Bible never states we can, other people are always shown casting them out.)
How can there be any peace in Christ if I must constantly be on the lookout for demons?
Cipio I guess you didn't read due to Ronald me. Chapter 5, and I am not going to keep trying to prove anything to you. If you do not want to know that's your privilege. I have answered all your questions. If you are not walking and talking terms with Jesus Christ, you can argue with me till the day is over and your problem is you're still debating from sense, knowledge and intellect. I'm, I've showed you the scriptures that back up what I'm saying.I can't keep up this debate.I will write a post later and hopefully it will explain what you don't understand.
BTW.. I made the statement 'ALL Black spots that show up in a body scan are demons'.. because the Lord Jesus Christ showed that to me.
In fact, the REASON I was able to visit MIRIAM knowing EXACTLY how to deliver her, was the confidence that came from the LORD SHOWING ME that a 'black spot', is a demon.
Too many Christians are 'guessing' at this type of critical information.. when it needs to be backed by Scripture, and / or revealed by the Lord.
If anyone is not Baptized in the power of the Holy Spirit, and is NOT on talking terms with Jesus Christ - they are left with 'guessing' and 'private interpretation of Scripture', which is why in so many cases, the Church has shown itself to be powerless and ineffective.
The holy spirit BAPTISM and a ROUTINE STUDY of Scripture is IMPERATIVE.
“ Too many Christians are 'guessing' at this type of critical information.. when it needs to be backed by Scripture, and / or revealed by the Lord.”
If we can’t find it in Scripture, how do we know it’s of God?
It’s fallacious and circular reasoning to cite our feelings or our experiential knowledge as evidence. That is why an objective, external standard of truth is the only standard we can all confidently turn to. I hope we would agree that the Holy Bible is the only standard that meets that criteria, not private revelations .
You asked: If we can’t find it in Scripture, how do we know it’s of God?
But IT IS in Scripture.
Anyone needs to learn how to let the Lord's Spirit of Truth', lead them in the 'All Truth'.. of the Bible to get their answers.
Without this, everything, as I said, is guesswork.
The answer to your question about 'children being punished by their parents sins', is found by comparing Ezekiel 18 and Deuteronomy chapter 5. I explained it above, though maybe you didn't see it. HERE....
Hello Scipio, You pointed to Ezekiel 18, and say that the Lord does not punish the children for the sins of their fathers. But you overlooked the context. I would ask you to compare the context of Ezekiel 18, with the context of Deuteronomy 5, which has a completely different viewpoint.. (or does it?) VIZ:
'I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,'
SO then, we see that God reserves to Himself the right to punish the children of evil doers.. How to reconcile both precepts? EASY:
Deuteronomy goes on to say WHEN the Lord God will LIFT the threat of being punished by our fathers.. VIZ:
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Ezekiel 18 is an EXAMPLE of that distinction. Look at it: The chapter details a man who does everything wrong.. where normally his children would suffer the consequences of his crimes.. But God EXPLAINS that the child who TURNS from his fathers sins, loves and obeys GOD,.. is shown mercy. Exactly what Deuteronomy 5:9&10 said after all. There you have it.
I can't post a photo here, but I will display a photo on my Stack of a little girl who suffered horrific exzema for the sins of her parents.. and was delivered AFTER her mom came clean and repented.
I Just ministered healing to a lady in New Zealand, whose afflictions were for the crimes of her parents. She was gloriously delivered after we determined the cause of her afflictions, and I prayed for her. She'll be writing her own testimony for all to see.
I'll also write on sickness soon. It is possibly the most important subject in Scripture, because sickess IS GODs STOP SIGN - His way of showing someone that something needs to be fixed SPIRITUALLY, before they die.
God bless you, Victoria
PS.. I never practice, nor preach anything that I cannot find in Scripture.