HOW to NOT try to HEAR THE LORD's VOICE PART III - How did Kenneth Hagin become demon possessed?
THE VERY REAL DANGERS of the FALSE WAYS TO TRY TO 'HEAR FROM GOD'
If you spend enough years studying the Bible, you may find - that if you return to things you’d enjoyed in the past, your eyes, newly opened, may regard them very differently.
This happened to me when, as an adult, I watched a movie that I loved in my youth; ‘Shenandoah’, with Jimmy Stewart. The protagonist, Charlie Anderson was a brave strong man, looking out for his family of seven sons and one daughter. I’d always imagined myself sitting at a big wooden table like his, with a family that size. And I’d always admired Stewart. So I remembered the movie with a blissful nostalgia.
30 years later, I happened to see it again. This time I heard Charlie bless his family’s dinner, and pray to God, saying something to the effect of - ‘But I don’t know what I’m thanking you fer.. seeing as I did all the work myself - to have what we have here’.. !
Many years after last listening to a Kenneth Hagin sermon, I also ‘heard’ new things. This time - I made a point to listen, to see if I could figure out what happened to the once wonderful man of God, to change him so dramatically. I finally heard Kenneth Hagin indict himself with his own words.
The Lord Jesus Christ said - from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks.
As a US Army interrogator I learned that - sooner or later - if you’ll give a guy the time to talk, and if you’ll just listen - he’ll tell you everything you want to know.
Last Fall, right off the bat, the name of Hagin’s sermon- ‘Personal Accounts of Divine Guidance’.. seemed ‘off base.’ It hadn’t noticed it before. After all, why shouldn’t someone have divine guidance? It was only after years of walking with the Lord, and being practiced in asking him questions, and hearing his replies, that the title of that sermon, registered as the testimony of a man speaking to a demon.
As Brother Hagin tells the story - In 1952 he was visiting another minister and his young daughter, staying with them in their parsonage. One night, before putting the child to bed, they all prayed together. Suddenly Hagin says he saw Jesus Christ in the corner of the room by the ceiling. He went on to say that “Jesus spoke with me for one and a half hours’, but only I could hear him.”
OK.. The first thing you might wonder, is - why would the man and his daughter sit there for an hour and a half, watching Hagin talking to the walls? But let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, and hear the testimony. Then we’ll discuss it.
You may quickly notice that the things Hagin says that the Lord told him, were not Scriptural. But for the purpose of discovery, follow this synopsis of the conversation, as recounted by Hagin. Then we’ll look at each quote - one at a time.
(Hagin’s his comments are followed by his initials - KH. Bible quotes are in bold/ and italics.)
Hagin reports Jesus Christ was standing there, invisible to the others present, and said this to him -
‘I’m going to teach you concerning devils, demons, and demon possession.
‘From this night forward, what is known in my word as discerning of spirits will operate in your life when you’re in the spirit.’‘
I will show you how they [demons] get ahold of people - even Christians, if they let them.’
‘To cast them out you have to know what kind they are.”
Kenneth Hagin makes the following statements - that I pulled from the long conversation:
“Discerning of spirits is supernatural insight into the spirit realm. It is seeing in the realm of spirits.” KH
“You don’t give that to yourself. It’s given as the spirit wills.” KH
“He [Jesus] didn’t say ‘YOU’ will operate it. He said IT will operate in your life.” KH
“The manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal.. for our profit, but notice the manifestation IS GIVEN..” KH
“As the spirit wills’. KH
“That’s one of the spiritual gifts.. It will operate in your life when you’re in the spirit.. “ KH
“No you don’t operate, he said IT will operate when you are in the spirit.” KH
“Keep that in your mind. You can’t work it yourself. It’s given by the Spirit. TO one,.. to another,.. to another,.. by the same spirit. ‘To one faith, to another discerning of spirits, to another divers kinds of tongues’. But all of these worketh the one and selfsame spirit., dividing to every man severally as he wills.” “Not as I will, Not as you will, but as the SPIRIT wills.” KH
“You see it’s given as the spirit wills - that’s the point I wanna make”. KH
“We prayed a couple of hours before the spirit said anything [to us]. You see, ya gotta create an atmosphere that he operates in before you’ll get these things.” KH
‘A certain damsel.. possessed with a spirit of devination, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.’ ‘The damsel followed Paul and us..’ (Acts 16:16-17) “Why did he put up with her many days?.. Because after many days suddenly the discerning of sprits was given to him to do something about it.” KH
“Spirits can smell so bad.. So ya can hardly stand it.” “I don’t smell anything.”. “We’ll if ya was in the realm of the sprit ya could.” KH
“You’ll know what KIND of spirit it is, though discerning of spirits.. You’ll need to know their name and their number.” KH
“He [Jesus] is talking to me about demons.. suddenly a demon runs up to me, stood between us, Jesus and I ..and threw up a dark cloud.. the demon starts making loud noise,… I could still hear his voice but couldn’t hear the words.” (Jesus’) “And I thought.. don’t Jesus know I can’t hear him?”
‘If you hadn’t done something about that demon.. I couldn’t.’ JC
OK. Without providing the full transcript of the ‘conversation’ Kenneth Hagin had with ‘somebody’, these statements give the important gist of it.
Let’s now see what it is that Hagin believes, and was teaching his congregation. (The same congregation that we saw in the video - willing to be ‘slain in the spirit’, or be ‘controlled by the spirit’, and/or enact ‘spiritually deplorable’ behavior.)
Statements In Order:
‘I’m going to teach you concerning devils, demons, and demon possession.
We could wonder why a man is singled out, in a vision, to be taught those things that the Lord already taught in the Gospels. And why specifically ‘demonology’? Why would Jesus Christ choose to teach that? But this ‘special treatment’ is something that stands out in everything Hagin taught, as if he were ‘specially gifted’ in the Church, to do things the disciples were unable to do, or not ‘gifted’ to do. (Watch how many times this idea comes up in context).
‘From this night forward, what is known in my word as discerning of spirits will operate in your life when you’re in the spirit.’
Pay close attention here:
What the Lord is alleged to say - removes from Kenneth Hagin - his free will. The spirit is now going to ‘operate in his life’. Whether he agrees or not. And that when he’s - ‘in the spirit’.
This is ‘spiritist talk’. There is NO SUCH THING in the Gospels, or the Pauline Epistles as being 'IN THE SPIRIT’. Christians do not go ‘into the spirit’. Mediums do. Spiritists do. Born again Christians have spirit INside at all times. It does not come and go like a trance.
This is extra Biblical. Someone is ‘adding to the Bible’. And it is not Jesus Christ.
Since when does a man already born again of God’s holy spirit suddenly have the spirit ‘operate in his life’. What happened to his holy spirit baptism? BTW, you’ll notice the ‘fire baptism’ on Pentecost, that launched the operation of the manifestations of holy spirit in all disciples, is NEVER mentioned by ‘Jesus’ in this ‘conversation’.
Everything Jesus is alleged to say, is as if Kenneth is about to be USED, his willingness notwithstanding. This is demon talk.
What does that mean to be ‘in the spirit’? It is to be possessed by demons. We are never said in the Bible to be ‘in the spirit’. Rather the spirit is said to be ‘in us’.
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.’ John 14:17
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ never possesses people. He never impinges on our free will. That He may speak to us when He wishes to do so, does not translate to someone suddenly being ‘in the spirit’. God speaking to us is revelation, which may happen at any time to the man who has ‘spirit within’.
In quote #11, (above) Hagin said - “Because after many days suddenly the discerning of sprits was given to him to do something about it.”
When we are born again of God’s holy spirit, we can operate the manifestation of that spirit at any time. It’s not like Paul suddenly had ‘the spirit given to him’ to ‘do something about it. The holy spirit is ‘seed’. Permanent. It doesn’t come ‘in and out of us’. That’s what evil spirits do.
Evil spirits will come in and out of a man.
When David played music for Saul, the evil spirits ‘left him’. Only evil spirits come and go in this fashion. ‘And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.’ I Samuel 16:23
‘
I will show you how they [demons] get ahold of people - even Christians, if they let them. To cast them out you have to know what kind they are.’
Here Hagin uses the record in Mark, of the man harboring a legion of demons, as an example of ‘having to know what kind of demon’ is in a man, in order to cast them out.
He also uses this record to say that we must know the ‘number of demons’.
Yet when Paul rebuked the demon in the woman, he did not ask its name, or if there were others in addition to the one.
‘But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.’ (Acts 16:18)
In fact, neither did the Lord ask the demon in the man (Mark 5:9) how many were in there. The demon volunteered that information. The point is profound. It was not the Lord talking to Hagin, for Jesus would not add provisions to Scripture that are not in the Bible.
“Discerning of spirits is supernatural insight into the spirit realm. It is seeing in the realm of spirits. “ KH
Discerning of spirits is not supernatural insight into the spirit realm. Nor is it seeing visions of demons. It is one of the 3 ‘revelation’ manifestations of holy spirit1 that ALL disciples are to operate that they may ‘TEST THE SPIRITS’, and not be deceived by any. This is the manifestation that Paul used when he understood the woman to be demonized, and not just a pain in their neck.
Can a saint receive specific information about a demon operating this manifestation? Sure. But that does not mean he is 'suddenly in the spirit’ like a medium goes into her ‘trance’ to ‘see’ things. Not at all. As with any revelation manifestation, this can be operated at any time', using the ‘spirit within’, by any disciple with a ‘need to know’.
(In 1978 when the Lord Jesus Christ delivered me from 15 years of demonic possession, he opened my eyes and I saw one of the demons leave me. It was the ‘praeder willi demon’, that had led me since childhood to gorge myself daily. It looked exactly like the Steven Spielberg character ‘ET’. Was I in the spirit? Not at all.. Holy spirit was already in me - for earlier that same day, I was baptized in the holy spirit).
You don’t give that to yourself. It’s given as the spirit wills.”
‘He [Jesus] didn’t say ‘YOU’ will operate it. He said IT will operate in your life.”
“The manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal.. for our profit, but notice the manifestation IS GIVEN..” KH
NOW WE’RE GETTING INTO THE MEAT OF IT.. NO NO NO. WHOAH THERE!
This is where Pastor Hagin’s false theology really began to shine for me. If you read his words, he is clearly describing an the ‘spirit’ trumping a man’s free will. IT will operate you, as.. IT WILLS.. the power manifestations are GIVEN - things are MOVED in you, taking you over at the will of the spirit.
Is that what the bible says?
Definitely not. Our operation of the manifestations of holy spirit are ALWAYS within our own will. God does not POSSESS people. Or his whole Bible would fall to pieces. As the Apostle Paul put it in I Corinthians 14:32
‘The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.’
The spirit that we are given, is holy - as God is holy. The spirit is called a ‘comforter’ not a ‘controller’. It is a Spirit of Truth. Does everyone have the same Truth? OBVIOUSLY NOT2 LOOK AT HOW MANY DENOMINATIONS THERE ARE IN CHRISTIANITY. WHY?
Simple. Because of this volunteer program. Not everyone troubles themselves to use the power given to them, to ‘ask at his mouth’, to discern spirits, to walk by the spirit.
IF OUR OPERATION OF HOLY SPIRIT WERE ‘AS THE SPIRIT WILLS’.. AND IF THAT WAS OF GOD - THEN WHY DON’T WE ALL HAVE THE SAME THEOLOGY?
“As the spirit wills’.
In this comment, Hagin was quoting I Corinthians 12 verse 11.. But is THAT what the verse says? No. It says, ‘…dividing severally to every man as he wills’. Who wills? The pronoun modifies the noun it immediately follows - ‘As the MAN wills’. Again, in perfect harmony with the entire topic of the operation of holy spirit. It is as the MAN wills.
I Corinthians 12: verses 8 - 10 have been so wrongly taught that most Christians think the spirit chooses one of the 9 manifestations and gives one to Charlie, but not to Suzie.. etc., another one to Peter, but not to Paul..
This is a gross misunderstanding of both the holy spirit given on the Day of Pentecost AND the meaning of the word ‘Manifestation’.
Let me say this, there is not enough room here to expound fully on this error, except to say that the words ‘to another’ refer back to the word ‘profit’. For each manifestation represents a different benefit. But the COLLECTIVE Bunch of grapes, all outward ‘manifestations’ of the ONE GIFT of holy spirit, is given to EVERY MAN to profit with. Read Verse 7!…'
‘THE MANIFESTATION - THAT IS THE GROUP OF 9 - IS GIVEN TO EVERY MAN.’
GOT THAT? EVERY MAN.
In fact, I ran that Bible class 19 times for a sum total of about 200 students. In ALL that time - over the course of 32 years - only TWO graduates.. did not speak in tongues. In the 1980s I had a Jehovah’s Witness take the class..
Christopher Constantopolous owned the Taxi Fleet I drove a cab with. Chris did NOT believe in speaking in tongues. When he graduated the 3 week Bible class, he stood up with the other 11 students in his class and he spoke in tongues like a house on fire!
This accurate translation puts it - ‘the spirit given to ‘EVERY MAN’ for the profit of all.. ie.. ‘TO ALL MEN’ - no one is left out, and - EVERYBODY BENEFITS!
“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to EVERY MAN for the profit of all’, I Cor 12:7
This verse is perfectly clear in many translations, as well as the Greek texts to mean ‘EVERY MAN’.
The words ‘EVERY MAN’, are the same as used in Matthew 16:27 - VIZ:
‘For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward EVERY MAN according to his works.’ Matthew 16:27
Still, to have it any other way makes no Biblical sense, except for the use of people like Kenneth Hagin that want to make themselves out to be ESPECIALLY GIFTED. He also calls the manifestations GIFTS -
“That’s one of the spiritual gifts.. It will operate in your life when you’re in the spirit.. “
NO and NO. The manifestations are the ‘appearing power’ of ONE GIFT - Holy Spirit. There is NO WORD ‘GIFT’, in I Corinthians 12:1 or 12:7.
In Chapter 12 verse 1, the word for spiritual is ‘Pneumatikos’ which means ‘spiritual matters’. There is no word gift in verse 1. It it is in your Bible, it was added.
NOW WATCH THIS - In verse 7, the word for manifestation is ‘Phanerosis’ which means ‘to bring to light’. ‘To visibly manifest’. ‘To show forth’. To make ‘apparent’. You can look up the interesting etymology of the word here; https://www.etymonline.com/word/phanero-
The Greek word phanero- is the root word of some very interesting words whose common link make the word ‘Manifestation’ all the clearer. It has NOTHING to do with a gift. But everything to do with ‘SEEING’ power become VISIBLE. This is given to EVERY MAN.
It forms all or part of: beacon; beckon; buoy; diaphanous; emphasis; epiphany; fantasia; fantasy; phanero; phantasm; phantasmagoria; phantom; phase; phenetic; phenology; phenomenon; photic; photo-; photocopy; photogenic; photograph; photon; photosynthesis; phosphorus; phaeton; sycophant; theophany;
AS LON SOLOMON USED TO SAY - WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
IF IT’S A GIFT OR A MANIFESTATION… ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD!
THE DEVIL DOES NOT WANT CHRIST’S CHURCH TO KNOW THE POWER THEY EACH HAVE!
The devil is not opposed to you going to church. He is not opposed even to saints getting born again, as long as they never grow spiritually. HE IS OPPOSED to the saints using POWER to defeat him. He is opposed to their learning how to duplicate the Lord’s ministry - and their knowing that they can operate the power he authorized us to use. The 9 manifestations of THE GIFT of holy spirit - are the VISUAL performance of that one gift.
If the word was GIFT - in I Corinthians 12:1 and in verse 7, then Kenneth Hagin would have been right in declaring himself as ‘specially gifted’.
But it doesn’t and he wasn’t.
His strong desire to be so gifted, however, is what led him to be deceived so badly to the point where he was listening to the tempter who told him that he was, and then got him to embark (SINCE 1952!) on a mission of teaching the same error.
HOW ELSE DO YOU THINK A CHURCH WOULD BE WILLING TO DO THIS?
Hagin was teaching this heresy from the start of his ministry. His son and daughter in law are in this video, participating in the fraud, and laughing. This is apostasy, and it came from one man’s pride, that led to his entertaining lies and ignoring truth.
I don’t think I need to continue to explain the error in each of his statements from the teachings I listened to. Everything he says below, continues the same parody of truth, suggesting that we are OPERATED by the spirit - we LOSE CONTROL of ourselves.
By now, this theology of his, should make it clear to you, how he wound up where he did, and how he led his congregation to follow. You can read the rest yourself and see if the holy spirit does not allow you, spirit filled saints, to DISCERN SPIRITS for yourself.
“No you don’t operate, he said IT will operate when you are in the spirit.” KH
“Keep that in your mind. You can’t work it yourself. It’s given by the Spirit. TO one,.. to another,.. to another,.. by the same spirit. ‘To one faith, to another discerning of spirits, to another divers kinds of tongues’. But all of these worketh the one and selfsame spirit., dividing to every man severally as he wills.” “Not as I will, Not as you will, but as the SPIRIT wills.” KH
“You see it’s given as the spirit wills - that’s the point I wanna make”. KH
“We prayed a couple of hours before the spirit said anything [to us]. You see, ya gotta create an atmosphere that he operates in before you’ll get these things.” KH
‘…a certain damsel.. possessed with a spirit of devination, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.’ ‘The damsel followed Paul and us..’ (Acts 16:16-17) “Why did he put up with her many days?.. Because after many days suddenly the discerning of sprits was given to him to do something about it.” KH
“Spirits can smell so bad.. So ya can hardly stand it.” “I don’t smell anything.”. “We’ll if ya was in the realm of the sprit ya could.” KH
“You’ll know what KIND of spirit it is, though discerning of spirits.. You’ll need to know their name and their number.” KH
“He [Jesus] is talking to me about demons.. suddenly a demon runs up to me, stood between us, Jesus and I ..and threw up a dark cloud.. the demon starts making loud noise,… I could still hear his voice but couldn’t hear the words.” (Jesus’) “And I thought.. don’t Jesus know I can’t hear him?”
Finally, Hagin wants us to believe Jesus said this..
‘If you hadn’t done something about that demon.. I couldn’t have.’ JC
Taking questions on this post in the comments below.
God bless you in the name of POWER, Jesus Christ,
VJCBingham
Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Discerning of Spirits
IF GOD were controlling our use of the spirit, there would be a WHOLE LOT more UNITY in what we believe - wouldn’t you think?
Wow.. just wow. As I’m reading I’m wondering “if this was a teaching I heard from a teacher I respected would I fall for it?” We must KNOW THE WORD to NOT be led astray.